Join me and special guest Dr. Shandra Parks, a Certified Financial Educator, Financial Social Worker, and owner of Uzima Financial Wellness, for an insightful episode on the financial and emotional toll of gambling and gaming addiction.
Discover:
**What disordered gambling really means
**The profound impact gambling has on your finances
**Key warning signs and how to address them
**Practical steps for recovery
Dr. Parks also shares her journey into this critical field, offering expertise at the intersection of mental health, gambling/gaming addiction, and money. Don’t miss this vital conversation! Additionally, she currently serves as Board President with the Maryland Council on Problem Gambling. Connect with her on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shandraparkslmsw/
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Transcript
Dr. Sev:
Foreign. Hey, hey, hey, savvy squad. Welcome to another episode of the Dr. Sev Talks Money, YouTube and podcast. I am so excited that you’re here today. We’re going to be talking about gaming, gambling, money and addictions. This is a subject I’ve never done on the podcast before. So I’m really excited to bring on our special guest.
Dr. Sev:
But before I do that, I want to share our mission, which is to empower women to take control of their finances with confidence, transform their money habits, and create a future where financial security unlocks opportunities. Our special guest today is Dr. Chandra Parks. She is a certified financial educator, a financial social worker, and owner of Uzima Financial Wellness. She focuses on the intersectionality of mental health, gambling, gaming addiction, and money. Additionally, she serves as the board president with the Maryland Council on Problem Gambling. Chandra, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Hi. Welcome. Thank you, Dr. Sev, for having me on this evening. And thank you to all of you for participating and being here this evening to talk about an unusual subject at this time of year. But it is a much needed subject topic. So this is just a introduction and just to have conversation this evening. So thank you so much for having me here.
Dr. Sev:
All right, so I want to kick it off by asking, how did you get into this field?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
So I am a social worker. I’ve been a social worker since 1998. So that is my educational background. In 2017, of course, we got to maintain our licenses. With CEUs, I stumbled across a free training for those who would like to specialize in gambling addiction. Learning more about that, and within that particular training, I was able to be connected with the Maryland Council on Problem Gambling. And I was able to attend one of their trainings that was geared towards the faith based community and learning how to address problem gambling. You hear the terms interchangeably problem gambling and disorder gambling from a faith perspective.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
And I was like, wow, I’ve never heard of that before. Matter of fact, I’ve never. Don’t know too much about the gambling field. So that was back in 2017 and here it is seven years later. I’m still new to the field, but really bringing out my advocate to this particular space and now tying that together with, you know, finances, because there is a connection with that. So that’s how I pretty much got started into this field and just being one of the few women of color that speaks out about gambling and gaming addiction along with financial well being.
Dr. Sev:
Okay, awesome. Yeah. Some of us just stumbled onto our pot of gold and it sounds like you’ve gotten to your sweet Spot with disorder gambling, and especially in the faith community. And you would never think, right, those two can intersect. But the faith community is not exempt from gambling addictions.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Right, exactly. And over financial, well, you know, financial well being. So when we look at it, a holistic approach to our overall financial wellness, look at what are those things that are maybe causing us or sabotaging us from being able to move forward and what we say that we would like to do as it relates to wealth empowerment. So my role is to try to help people understand that, look at that, and be able to connect with other financial counselors to collaborate and work together to help an individual, family and community on that path to wealth empowerment.
Dr. Sev:
Okay, so with that, tell us a little bit what is disordered gambling?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
So simply, if we look at what is gambling, let’s just take it back to simply what is gambling? Gambling involves just taking a risk on an unclear outcome or event by risking something of value, usually money, and hopes for the intent to win something of a higher value. So let’s just use that as an example. So let’s take a scratch off. I mean, I know a lot of people are familiar with scratch off. I know a lot of people may be familiar with winning the mega millions, depending on where you reside. And so with that, imagine going to the store, buying a scratch off ticket, say for $1 and hope that you may win the lottery or hopes that you may win the mega millions if we were to put a dollar amount on that. So say were buying this $1 scratch off in hopes to win a million dollars. And so that is what gambling is at risk in the hope, usually risking something of value, entertaining to try to win something of greater value.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
That may sound simple, it’s okay, that may not be a problem. However, it becomes a problem when we do not have a healthy boundary and know our limits. And so that’s when it starts to become a disorder. When there’s a repeated pattern that’s going on daily for at least out of the year. There’s four out of the nine criteria. And when I speak of that, there is a diagnostic According to the DMS5 criteria criteria, in order for someone to be diagnosed with having a gaming disorder. And gaming disorder is identified by a pattern of repeated and ongoing betting and wagering that continues despite it creating multiple problems in different areas of your life. And so that is the piece that oftentimes we don’t think about.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
And so it’s not to say that, oh, gambling is bad because I have a neutral stance, but when it starts to impact your overall health, health and well being and your other life domains. That is where we need to kind to have a conversation. And how is this impacting you? So if you find yourself spending more money on a lottery ticket or a scratch offer at the casino and risking what you should be paying to pay your mortgage, then that’s, that’s an impact because now it’s impacting your housing situation and what that may look like. And so then you may continue saying, if I lose my housing or my rent money, that means I now have to look at other ways to be able to make up that difference in order not to be put out. And oftentimes individuals, when they become addicted, then their resources become very limited or they overextending or ended up into high debt because now they got to manage what’s been lost to try to re, you know, cover. So then often times they may end up relying on credit cards to sustain, to try to get through what is needed. And then oftentimes they may turn to risky behaviors and engage in activity that may cause harm to other people as it relates to their employment, as it relates to other people’s lives, that may cause them to end up in situations that are just even much more stressful, end up being incarcerated, end up losing, you know, job. So within that, that is pretty much the impact in terms of, you know, gambling and how that may show up.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
And oftentime people may recognize, you know, maybe men who are gambling. We always see like the imagery around a lot of men. However, let it be known that women also become, they become addicted to this as well. And oftentimes, and oftentimes we don’t have those conversations.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, you mentioned that there were I think five markers that they used to determine five of nine, four out of nine.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
So I could just, so let me, I just will go back and say, well, what those four, those markers are so frequent thoughts about gambling. So simply I wake up in the morning, that’s all I think about. I think about gambling. You know, how when I win at the table, how am I going to win this scratch off? You know, I need to hurry up and get to get out of work, leave early so I can buy this particular scratch off. Need to gamble with increasing amount. So you may start off, okay, I might buy this $1 scratch off. But I may hear on the news like, oh, the, the amount of the mega millions has now jumped up by an additional $2 million. So I’m now going to increase the amount of money that I may spend in buying scratch offs with that chance up, I.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
I’m able to buy that. Repeated, unsuccessful efforts to control cutting back or stopping on gambling. I know I need to stop, but I just am unable to do that. Become a restless or irritable when trying to cut down. Like, I. This is such something that I’m used to that is hard for me to stop. I get restless, I get irritable. Oftentimes, people you may hear like, I decided, you know, to gambling or I’m gambling because I want to release any type of stress.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
I want to get away from what’s going on. I’m overwhelmed. I just want to go to a different, you know, place. And oftentimes that is what that gambling releases that dopamine and that comfort that I’m, you know, I’m here after losing. So I gamble. I didn’t win, you know, I didn’t win at the table. I did. I lost out on this bet, but I wouldn’t go back because I got to get even.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Even though I lost, I got to keep going back because I got to try to get back that which is lost. And we call that chasing losses. Okay, I lost 100. Okay, I went it back, but then I lost 200. So now I got to keep going back to keep chasing after this loss. As I mentioned before, I may be stressed, overwhelmed. I may look at. I don’t have a situation that I’m unable to get out of this.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
I’m in all this debt. I’m distressed by how much I owe. Yeah, if there’s a way, I’ve been looking for a job. I can’t get a job, and it’s overwhelming. I got bills to pay. I got this, and it’s here, and it’s hard. I look, I see a table. Look at tv, see the announcements.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
If I can just win that number, it will alleviate all this financial distress that I am feeling. Oftentimes, lying to hide the gambling. Oftentimes, and we call that, you know, sometimes financial infidelity. You know, we don’t tell the truth about what’s happening in our behavior. Someone may have loaned us money to say, okay, I need five or hundred dollars to get out of this particular problem. Not knowing that the $500 is what I really need. So I could go down to the table to try to win that back. But I began to start lying about my activity.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Losing important opportunities or possibly losing your job, Losing relationships that are of value due to gambling, and then relying on other people to help with money problems caused by gambling. So those are symptoms, like when you look at over the past year, when a person has maybe four, four out of those nine areas that I talk about, intervention needs to be put in place to help that particular, you know, individual. What’s going on? What is the boundaries? What is the underlying? Because gambling is such a hit, we call it the hidden addiction. You’re able to see when someone is suffering with a drug addiction. You’re able to see someone when they’re dealing with an alcohol addiction. But rarely are you able to see when someone is dealing with a gambling addiction because it’s very, you know, hidden. You know, people may look at, you know, the finances, okay, why is this person, you know, high on debt, you know, they have a good job. But why is the, you know, why is the, you know, the credit.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
What’s. What seems to be going on? What’s happening underneath, beyond and numbers. And that’s all the times that we talk, talk about the money is much more than just the dollars and cents. But really, what is the hidden root? What is the underlying? What is the mental and emotional attachment that’s going on that is preventing an individual from moving forward? And so when you look and you.
Dr. Sev:
Mentioned a lot of things, and so what are some things that family members or loved ones can do to support someone who is struggling with gaming or gambling addictions?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
So what families of loved ones can do is be able to have the hard conversations with individuals not from a place of shaming because the individual already feels shame, already feels guilt, but really being able to have this conversation that we are acknowledging this. We’re not going to run away from it, but we are acknowledging this. Secondly, the person who is affected with the gambling, who has the addiction, being able to have that conversation that if they are the person who is managing the household finance, being able to turn that particular responsibility over to someone else that’s able to manage the household at that particular time, the household finances.
Dr. Sev:
Okay, so you shared a couple of really good things or good strategies that a family member or loved ones can use to support someone who may be struggling with gambling addiction. What if that person decides, well, I don’t want to acknowledge that I have a problem. Is there anything, any groups or any organization or anything that you can be referred to to get some help?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Okay, so with that. So the individual at this particular time may not be ready to say, you know what? Here, there is the national number, which is 1-800- gambler. That is a national number each particular state. That is the hotline number that anyone can call with someone they may know someone or that individual may themselves may make that particular, you know, call. Additionally, throughout the states there are what is called GA meetings, Gambler Anonymous meetings. So those are support groups for individuals who may be impacted or affected by, you know, gambling. Those meetings are oftentimes some of those meetings may be closed because it’s just for the individual to gain that particular support. Support.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
But then there’s also time, there’s other two other type of meetings. There may be meetings there for the gambler plus a family support meeting. Oftentimes those are, you know, those shared meetings. And then there’s often times where there may be open meetings and that may be a person from the community are able to come to those particular supportive, you know, meetings. But most of the time those particular meetings are geared towards the, you know, the gambler.
Dr. Sev:
Okay.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
The person who is impacted with gambling. We use it, we try to use person centered language. So we don’t want to say the person in terms of gambler, which I just mentioned, but the person who is affected or challenged with, you know, problem gambling. Because we want to look at the individual who may be at this particular moment just dealing with something that they are, you know, that they are struggling with, that they are not their addiction.
Dr. Sev:
Right. That is so key. Right. Making sure that we separate the activity and the addiction from the person because the person is not that they are dealing with an issue and we are going to be addressing that issue through therapy or some other intervention. Now you, I think you said 1-800- gambler.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
I want to make sure 1, 800, gambler. Yes.
Dr. Sev:
Okay. Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much. Anthony. Yeah. So you mentioned a few things that an individual can use in terms of the groups to try to recover from gambling related losses. What about therapy? What if someone were to come to you and a therapist, would you as a social worker therapist, having experience in that field, what kind of things can they expect from working?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
So actually, thank you. So when we look at this, because as we talk about gambling and dealing with gambling addiction, it’s often great to be in the field that you’re able to work with a therapist who specializes in gambling addiction. However, there may not be a lot of individuals who have that particular specialty. So connecting with a therapist is good. What an individual can expect is to have someone that is going to operate in a safe and non judgmental space that they are there for the particular client, for their person, and they’re not there to judge them and really help them deal with the behavior, uncover and unmask the underlying causes or the root from that particular space. So that is the work. So they’re dealing with the mental, they’re dealing with any past trauma, they’re dealing with any thoughts and feelings that may cause, you know, sabotage, and be able to help them come up with coping skills to address the addictive, you know, behavior. So there might be certain treatment modalities that an individual may be able to utilize and implement along the way.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Along with working with a therapist, A therapist may not also. A therapist may not, in that particular space, may not address any of the money concerns. And this is where partnering with financial counselors comes very helpful to the healing and recovery process. Because working with that particular financial counselor, they’re able to address the areas such as debt management, credit, rebuilding, credit, restor, you know, restoration. If a person is thinking about bankruptcy to deal with some of the financial harm or restitution that must be made, they’re able to help them deal with the money management piece of it, Help them really come up with a financial game plan to move forward. And so, and that helps the financial counselor out because they don’t have to worry about trying to figure out the mental and the emotional anguish or dealing with the trauma or where this individual is. So you have a collaborative, you know, space and mutual, beneficial, working, you know, relationship. Because everyone may not specialize in everything, but we do kind of connect with those individuals who are great in their lane, and we’re able to what we say, refer out.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, because I know as a financial counselor, I have had to say to someone, you know, I think you need to see a therapist because this is beyond the scope of my certification. And it great to work, definitely great to work hand in hand with the therapist who can uncover the underlying reason for these behaviors. And then we work with, as a counselor, we work with the symptoms or the after effects of the behavior, you know, helping them rebuild their finances, helping them with their credit, helping them manage their debt. So, yes, that relationship is very, very key. Now, I think you also mentioned some warning signs that someone may have a gambling or gaming addiction. Is there anything else you want to add to that?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Now, I think those are, you know, signs where you look at one of the big things being avoiding paying bills. Oftentimes, you know, individuals, you know, avoid, you know, bills coming in over, you know, debt, staying late, you know, not, you know, not. Another warning sign is avoiding bills too. If there is, if they’re in a partnership relationship, not being trustworthy in terms of being able to come back to the household on time. So knowing this particular route may take 15 or 20 minutes. But oftentimes the person may come back an hour or two later. That may be a sign that something else is going on or something may be preoccupying the time at that particular. If you go look at your bank account, oftentimes what may be set aside for future retirement or children’s educational funds, you realize, oh look, those numbers seem to be a decrease and there is no conversation as to why the numbers are decreasing.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
That may be a sign that’s happening what’s going on. And we talked about places of employment that if you’re not showing up to work or just not being focused in on the job or what you’re been assigned to do, that may be a warning sign. That may be sign when you’re looking into the conversations with individuals, hearing where a person is spending their time or what they’re thinking about all the time. If you find yourself that you are lending out and we call this and we work through therapy and work through support groups being mindful how much money that you may lend a person to get out of a gambling addiction, we oftentimes that’s called a bailout. And oftentimes we may think we may be helping a person out when we’re giving them money, but in actuality that may be much more harmful because that person has not, as we say, hit that rock bottom as to like this is really impacting. So we want to be mindful and that oftentimes that’s hard. When it is a loved one and being able to have those healthy boundaries set in place and to be able to say no to a loved one, oftentimes it’s not easy.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Because they’re not only are they dealing with the after impact, the impact, the after effects of their behavior, they are dealing with the guilt because now the finances are in shambles and they’re feeling so guilty and they know they need to do better, they want to do better. So they’re dealing with all of those things. So I can imagine that it’s not an easy place for them to be in. But it’s great that we have services that you’ve mentioned that can help someone. So please, if you are out there and you’re listening to this podcast you’re watching on YouTube or listening to any on any of the podcast platform, know that there is help for you and it’s you can get into into these services and they are a non judgmental place where you can get the help and you’re not going to be Judged your behavior will be, they will work with you on your behaviors, but you as a person, you’re not going to be judged. And I have another question here. Someone is asking, do you feel that people of the abundance mindset may gamble more than someone with a scarcity mindset? An interesting question.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
That is a wonderful, that is definitely a wonderful question because you look at the reason behind why a person may want to engage in risky behavior. And so if a person has an abundant mindset, they may be able to shield it a little bit more in terms of what they are doing and the reason why they may be participating in risky, you know, behavior versus a person. When you think about scarcity, they’re maybe presented in doing this because I have here and I have to do this and this is what I may call as a sole problem solution solution, gambling to a particular problem. Because I don’t, I don’t see no other solutions out there. Whereas a person may, you have an abundance, I may have a wealth, I may want to increase that wealth now. And that’s a great question that you ask it in that particular way because from a financial aspect and oftentimes we don’t talk about it and I hear this a lot, is that if I get into the stock market or if I decide to do crypto or day trading, is that gambling?
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, but I think some of those you could be, it could be termed gambling, but it’s more, how do you say that? More controlled gambling.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
So, so, and I, and I, and I love that question because you know, and I and I talk about that because all the times when they talk about that, what is the risk there? You know, as I said, gambling is taking a risk on an uncertain outcome and a who hopes for something greater, of greater value. If you have healthy boundaries, then when you engage in activities such as the stock market as crypto or day trade, if it’s healthy, you have able to set up that boundary for yourself, then okay, this is what I’m going to use this money for, that it doesn’t impact my overall health and well being and other life domain.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
And you’re able to make an informed decision if you’re doing the research that you’re not haphazardly engaging in something. Now on the flip side, if you’re just like, I’m just listening to what this influencer said, this is what’s happening, what’s going on. I know I should pay my rent, but I, I got it, I got a hot tip that this is going to go up and I can pull out just as quick then. Yes. Then that piece you may be leaning on towards the gambling side. So that’s why I said it’s very important to understand your mindset, understand the boundaries that you have for yourself, understand what your financial goals are and what those limitations are, and be able to recognize when I have crossed over to that line where this is no longer helpful in my situation, but now it’s becoming harmful.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, yeah. Because. Because gambling is something we all do. I mean, we all do to some extent, but I think from your definition at the beginning, where you talked about what gambling was and then what disorder gambling is, is where the gambling goes over other domains in our lives and it becomes a problem in other areas of our lives.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Right. So that’s. So that’s. That’s the key. So as. Because it’s all around us, we’re unable to get through. It’s even on. It’s on our telephones.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
It’s, you know, the grocery stores, the seven elevens, going to the airports, you know, some airports. It is there. The question is, do I have the boundaries set up, that although this is all around me, that this is not going to impact me. And if I choose to engage into it, that I know. Okay, once. Once my $5 is lost at this particular place, it’s a wrap. It’s a done. It’s a done deal.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
So understanding that.
Dr. Sev:
Yes. Awesome. Well, Dr. Chandra, you’ve shared a lot of information here for us to ponder and go back and listen to on the podcast, whether we’re going to be listening on the podcast platforms or on YouTube. And thank you so much for sharing. Is there any. Are there any final words that you’d like to share with listeners?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
I know, but I just want to say thank you for having me on this evening and realize that what I want individuals to walk away with, that is not, you know, that there is hope. We’re not here to shame. We’re not here to condemn. It is an activity. It is a social activity. It is a recreational, you know, activity. And we want to make sure that people are able to enjoy their recreational activities in a safe and healthy manner. And when that is, when you’re unable to do so or is causing harm to yourself or others, then to feel free to reach out for help.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, and I will share again that number. One of the numbers that you can reach out to is 1-800- gambler. It’s on the screen and it’s also going to be in the show notes of the podcast. It’s 1-800- gambler. All right, so, Dr. Chandra, I love to wrap up my session with a fun question.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Sure, absolutely.
Dr. Sev:
And so the fun question for you today is, if you could travel anywhere in the world right now, where would you go and why?
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Oh, wow. That is such an amazing question. If I could travel in the world anywhere right now, I think I would love to go to Africa. I’m just home, just the, you know, the motherland. I just heard so much about it. South Africa, particularly at the different places. I want to visit Ghana. I want to visit Senegal.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
I would just love to just visit the beauty of Africa. That’s. That’s where I would like to travel right now.
Dr. Sev:
Okay, I’m right there with you. I’m right there with you. She mentioned Ghana, South Africa, Senegal.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Yeah. Different places all over. Zimbabwe, Kenya. I want to see it all.
Dr. Sev:
I am with you. I love to. My brother’s right now in South. South Africa. And I would love to be one of those traveling and visiting the different countries of the motherland.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Yes.
Dr. Sev:
So thanks again, Dr. Chandra. Thanks, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I really appreciate you. You can come back. You can find the doctor Sev Talks money podcast on all podcast platforms, platforms including Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Audible, Amazon Music, and more. And of course, you can find us on YouTube.
Dr. Sev:
We are going to be back tomorrow with another episode talking about your money and how you can best manage your money. And again, just remember, the habits that you have around your money is not you. They’re not you. They are separate from you. So what we’re dealing with is not you as a person, but the habits. We are wanting to make sure that you have healthy habits and healthy boundaries around your money. We all make money mistakes, but this place is where you can learn about strategies to recover and cope with your finances. So thanks, everyone, and I will see you on the next episode.
Dr. Chandra Parks:
Thank you.
Keywords
gaming addiction, gambling addiction, money management, financial security, women empowerment, Dr. Sev, Dr. Chandra Parks, Uzima Financial Wellness, Maryland Council on Problem Gambling, financial educator, financial social worker, mental health, disordered gambling, gambling disorder, financial loss, financial counseling, debt management, credit restoration, absenteeism at work, financial aftermath, addiction warning signs, guilt, financial ruin, abundance mindset, scarcity mindset, stock market trading, financial infidelity, hidden addiction, 1-800-GAMBLER, Gambler’s Anonymous, coping skills, Severine Bryan, Sev Talks Money
