A conversation with Susan Day of Pathways Forward ADHD Coaching where we explore the unique challenges of holiday spending for individuals with ADHD. From managing impulsivity and perfectionism to staying organized and sticking to a budget, Sue shares practical tips and strategies to make this holiday season less stressful and more joyful. Whether you’re looking to avoid overspending or just seeking ways to simplify the holidays, this discussion is packed with actionable advice tailored to ADHDers.
Connect with Sue here:
https://pathwaysforwardcoaching.com/
https://www.facebook.com/pathwaysforward, https://www.instagram.com/pathwaysforwardcoaching/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sue-day/
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Transcript
Dr. Sev:
Hey, hey, hey, Savvy squad. Welcome to another episode of the Dr. Sev talks, money, YouTube and podcast. I have a special guest with me today, and we’re going to be talking about holiday spending with ADHD and share practical tips for success. We’re also going to be talking about her book, which is called ADHD A Journey into your extraordinary brain. But before I introduce Sue, I want to remind you of our podcast’s mission, which is to empower women to manage money confidently and create a future of financial freedom, security, and opportunity. Our special guest today is Susan Day of Pathways Forward ADHD coaching. As your friendly ADHD coach, Sue specializes in helping fabulous ADHDers like you who sometimes feel stuck in life’s chaos, tap into their strengths and discover their unique, quirky brilliance.
Dr. Sev:
Sue, welcome to the broadcast.
Sue Day:
Thank you. So good to be here.
Dr. Sev:
Okay. All right, so right off, I’d love to hear about the driver behind this work that you’re doing.
Sue Day:
So the driver. How did I get to be an ADHD coach? I’m passionate about it. For one I’ve actually known. I’ve had ADHD since 1988. I was diagnosed very early on. I was 16 years old, and here. And I became. I was diagnosed and ignored it for many, many years.
Sue Day:
And over time, I went through a series of colleges, careers, ups and downs, challenges, all of which were pretty clearly related to my ADHD. And I. At the age of, what, 50, I finally got so tired and so burnt out and so discouraged that I became an ADHD coach because I had had an ADHD coach about a year prior, and she changed my life. And it was just so clear to me that the careers that I was in, though I was fairly good at them, they were really not very kind to me. And so I saw an ADHD coach, and I. She was so powerful. I decided I wanted to do this for other people with adhd because the struggles are real, the challenges are real, but we have such extraordinary brains, and if we can embrace them, if we can embrace our strengths, then we can do wonderful, amazing things, and we could lead wonderful lives. So that’s where.
Sue Day:
That’s where I’m at. That’s what I want to do. I want to help other women lead absolutely amazing lives.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, I love it. A lot of us, I think, are there where we found our epiphany, so to speak. And we’re wanting others to experience. Experience that same epiphany, and so we want to share. So I love hearing your story. So this is around the holidays, and I know that there are different challenges that come with having adhd. So what are some common holiday spending challenges that are unique to individuals with adhd?
Sue Day:
Well, I’m not sure I would call them entirely unique. A lot of the challenges that we face as ADHDers are similar to challenges that the general public experience. We just experience more of them at sort of a higher volume. So I think we tend to, during the holidays do similar things to what other people do. We overspend, we over buy sometimes we repeat buying, sometimes we forget to return things that need to be returned. As an adhd, that overspending is just sort of, is amplified. We are so much, it’s so much harder for us to control our overspending, our over buying. We are disorganized and we forget that we already bought a present for this person and so now we have two.
Sue Day:
Or we forget that we. I don’t know. I do this all the time on Amazon. I, I forgot that I put it in my cart. So I click the button, add to cart again and it shows up and I’ve got two or three of the same item and then I need to figure out how to return it. And my, I don’t remember to return things. I’m disorganized and I forget those little bits of things. And so we often, not only do we over buy, we also have a hard time returning things just out of the sheer organizational challenges there.
Sue Day:
We also are big people pleasers. We really want to please everybody. We get a lot of criticism as ADHDers. People don’t. People, people. We tend to be thought of as lazy or disruptive or irresponsible. And people tell us that all the time. So we want to make things perfect for everybody.
Sue Day:
So we want this amazing Hallmark holiday and, and we’ll do anything we can to, to make it perfect for everybody else.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, well, you mentioned quite a number of things that with some, for someone with adhd, what are some things or some strategies that they can employ to manage these impulses?
Sue Day:
There are a lot of strategies. And because h. Each person with ADHD is unique, our experiences are unique, our brains are unique, we need to experiment with them and figure out what works for us. It is, you know, it’s sort of universal. Shiny things are shiny things. Shiny things make us happy. If we’re stressed or overwhelmed or feeling anxious or sad, the retail therapy becomes important. You know, it makes us feel better.
Sue Day:
So one of the ways that I try to navigate that for myself is to not do my Christmas shopping or my holiday shopping when I am in a rush, or when I’ve planned too many things for the day or late in the day or before, you know, if I’m hungry. All of those things impact my ability to control my impulsivity. And we also have just there. And there’s a lot of other tactics that are, you know, saying organizing, budgeting, enlisting friends is many, many things.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, you mentioned a few things. You mentioned impulsivity, and you mentioned the wanting to be perfect, the desire to be perfect to create that Hallmark movie holiday scenario. How does maybe low dopamine levels or how does that play a role in any of the impulsivity or the perfectionism?
Sue Day:
Hmm. Well, I think low dopamine is. Is a. Is a chemical in our brains that help us sort of experience energy, emotions, joy, excitement. And we have low dopamine in our brains. We don’t have. And. And so.
Sue Day:
And that actually means that. That we feel bored and uninterested, more so than others do. So anytime we can create novelty, that’s. You know, our brain is trying to create something that it hasn’t seen before because our brains are so starved for that interest. So we create novelty. We want to create beauty, appreciate, like, people. It’s interesting. People with ADHD very universally really enjoy beautiful things.
Sue Day:
And it’s. You know, I. I always get amazed when I talk to somebody and they don’t notice beautiful scenery or. Or a beautiful bauble on a tree or whatever. And. And I just realized that it’s. It’s the ADHD in me that is, like, so drawn to these beautiful things that help my brain feel better. And so that turns into, let’s buy stuff to get.
Sue Day:
To create this beautiful stuff around me. Let’s. Let’s. Let’s buy stuff to create new things around me. And I’ve learned, though, and I’m learning because I’m not perfect, that. That if I remember what my end goal is for the holidays, then I can. Sometimes I can mitigate some of that. Oh, that’s pretty.
Sue Day:
I need to buy that. Oh, that’s pretty. Oh, my. Somebody is gonna love this. And so. And they. Then I. And so I have to buy it for them, even if I’ve already bought stuff for them.
Sue Day:
So, yeah, so just. Just if I remember the end result, which is spending time with friends and family, having a good time, I can sometimes mitigate some of that.
Dr. Sev:
Okay, so you mentioned remembering the end result, which is one way to cope. What are some other ways, like using tools like cash envelopes or prepaid cards or separate bank account. Do any of those help manage holiday spending?
Sue Day:
They can. They require some prior organization and some setup, similar to creating lists and having a spending limit for each person. You need to set it up. Right. So you need to, okay, I am not going to bring my credit cards with me shopping. I’m just going to bring this pile of cash. When that pile of cash is gone, I am done shopping. In order for that to work for me, the credit cards have to stay home.
Sue Day:
Because I’m really good at breaking my own rules and, and, you know, having a separate bank account. If I have a separate bank account for shopping, I need to leave the other bank account at home. I cannot have, you know, so I, I just really. That is. It’s segmenting your money so that you can’t spend it and if you still can. You know, our brains aren’t very good at following rules, so you actually have to put a physical barrier in between you and the money you’re not intending to spend.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, it sounds to me like having an accountability partner or a group or some trusted person or persons will possibly help. So, for example, you know, trusted friend, family member. How should someone approach that conversation? If they’re saying, you know what, I understand my limits. I know that I have this impulsivity. I want to have someone to hold me accountable. How should they address that conversation?
Sue Day:
Yeah, that’s a tough one. In this country, we are not good at admitting that we need help. We are. We’re just not good at not being perfect. Right. And we all feel like we need to be perfect all the time. So it’s hard. And in order to do it, you have to, for one, get into the mindset of, it’s okay that I need help.
Sue Day:
I have a different brain. And I need this accommodation. Just like you would say at work, I need an accommodation to thrive at work. I need this accommodation to thrive at home. And you have to be absolutely sure that if you enlist a friend or family member to do that, you have to continue to remind yourself you will not get angry at them when they help you stay accountable to your own rules. Because that can be really challenging. It’d be like, no, wait, why are you keeping my money from me? Well, because you asked me to. You have to remember that otherwise it’s a relationship killer, you know? So you have to.
Sue Day:
It’s okay to need the help. It’s great to accept that. To need the help. Ask for the help and accept the help. You have to accept that help if you’re gonna ask for it.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah. It sounds like they may need to share not only just to ask for help, but to, to say what their goal is. Because that, then that person, when they say, why are you kind of holding, holding me accountable? They can remind them of the goal that they’re wanting to achieve and maybe that in addition to holding them accountable for not spending or not spending as much, but just reminding them, well, you asked me to do this to, not to help you spend, but the reason, or help you manage your spending. But the reason you asked me to do that is because you want to go on that Paris vacation.
Sue Day:
Right. That’s a great idea. I hadn’t thought about that, but what a great idea to have your accountability partner able to remind you of why you needed the accountability.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah.
Sue Day:
Beyond just the immediate goal of I’m not supposed to spend this money right now.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah. So we talk a little bit about the holiday and the fact that we have not only the everyday things to contend with, but we have the ads, we have all of these things they’re not telling us, spend, spend, spend, spend, spend. You’re saving money. This is a sale. When we know really it’s not, but you know, this is a sale. Buy this, do this. All these voices coming at us. So it can be overwhelming emotionally, financially.
Dr. Sev:
So what are some self compassion practices that you could Recommend to help ADHDers navigate this tricky time of year without guilt?
Sue Day:
Yeah, it’s, it’s really important. And I would say this to every ADHD in every realm of their life. Flogging ourselves into submission is not. Which is often how we get things done is not a sustainable approach. Right. We can’t flog ourselves into being better people. We have to learn to love ourselves and become the people we want to be. We have to learn that we are lovable and loved and good enough people.
Sue Day:
And then. But okay. And it’s okay to want to improve, but. But we need to love ourselves first. Without that, we will continuously get burned out, become exhausted, lose our track, lose our track and veer in directions that we don’t necessarily serve. That don’t necessarily serve us. So learning to know what your goals are and respect them, not just because somebody said I need to have these goals, but because you said, I said I need to have these goals because this is important to me. It is important to me to have enough money in January to go on this vacation or it is important to me to allow myself to understand that if I don’t have a Hallmark, if I, oh, okay, so if I have a Hallmark holiday, if I make everything perfect.
Sue Day:
It’s important to me to remember if I do that, I’m not going to have any fun. Right. And so it’s all about learning how to love and respect yourself and your goals instead of trying to force what you think should be on to onto your life.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah. Because you know, you mentioned, you know, the Hallmark movie Holiday and, and all of those things and you know, the perfectionism as being part of having adhd. So not only are we telling ourselves these things, but the voice is outside because as ADHD our brains just function a little differently. And if we don’t fit into what society consider the norm or the conformed behavior, then they’re, they’re calling us lazy, they’re calling us, you know, all these, these things that they say to us that we, we already think bad about the fact that we don’t maybe not fit into society, not conform to society’s behavior. And then we have those voices dumping into us. And we’re trying now to make this perfect holiday because maybe we’re trying to prove otherwise or for whatever reason. So you mentioned those things that they can just tell, you know, share compact self compassion practices, how they can, maybe how they can navigate. And then of course, having those accountability partners to help them really navigate this world, navigate throughout this season because it’s especially difficult during the holiday season.
Dr. Sev:
What else can you think of that may help an ADHder speaking to that one person right now who is out there who just thinks they have to have that horror movie holiday and they’re stressing themselves out and they’re hearing those voices from outside and their, their voices on the inside. What are maybe a couple of things that you can speak directly to them about right now?
Sue Day:
Yeah, I think a lot of it is trying to pause and think, okay, perfection for one doesn’t exist. Remember that. Perfection doesn’t exist. Right. You can’t have a perfect holiday. Nobody can. It’s not, it doesn’t exist. There’s no, nothing to measure it against.
Sue Day:
Right. So, so for me that’s really helpful because there’s that, oh, it doesn’t exist. How could I possibly make it happen? And then there’s asking myself or asking somebody what’s good enough? What’s good enough? What will make me feel good? So these are my goals. I want to have, you know, say that your goals are you want to have fun with friends and family, you want to enjoy yourself, you want to not drop dead the day after because you’ve made yourself sick from all the stress. So with Those goals in mind, what’s good enough to get you through to that place? And, and is it okay to ask for help? Is it okay to, you know, not put that extra bauble on the tree that you know that you don’t probably need? Or is it okay to not get extravagant gifts for everybody that you can’t afford? So you know, it’s asking yourself what’s good enough for you?
Dr. Sev:
I like that. Really, what’s good enough? And then you define that, not an outside voice. And if we, I think if we can define that ahead of time, that may help with some of the pressure we put on ourselves because we know what is good enough for us and we’ve already decided that and our acts will back that up. And then you also mentioned asking for help. We are a society, as you said that we don’t like to acknowledge that we have problems. We don’t like to acknowledge that our lives are not as golden. Consequently, you see on social media all these people talking about their six figure launch and they’re all this thing, but what they’re not telling you about is the fact that they may make a hundred thousand revenue but they have 99,000 in expand so they really only made a dollar. They’re not telling you all those things because they’re not, they can’t share, they’re not willing to share their profit and loss statement.
Dr. Sev:
So it makes it seem as if everything is golden. And then because we don’t ask for help and we’re measuring ourselves against those pseudo influencers on social media, then we are measuring ourselves against something that doesn’t exist. So if we can tell ourselves that this is what I want to achieve and then do the things that, that will help us achieve that, I think that’s going to be better. And especially for someone with an ADHD brain who looks at things again a little bit different. What are some things that not to diagnose anyone, but what are some things that someone with ADHD may look at differently than someone who doesn’t have adhd?
Sue Day:
Well, I was going to go back to the other question, but actually you asked the perfect question, so I don’t need to. One of the things that I think often happens with friends and family and holidays is we hear comments from friends and family who also are not necessarily always thinking of what’s good enough, but they are also, because it’s a societal thing, are measuring ourselves and each other against whatever the perfection, whatever that social media presence is or whatever that. So friends and family sometimes do say things like, oh, you’re doing that, or you know, that imply you’re not doing good enough, you’re not doing well enough. For an ADHD year. We have emotional regulation challenges that are, can be fairly intense. And along with that comes some rejection sensitivity that can be extremely intense. And it’s often inside our heads. We don’t let other people see it, but we still, we hear a comment like that and it can just devastate us.
Sue Day:
It can just ruin the whole day. And so what I’d like to remind people is when people say things like that, try to pause and think about it and remember that’s a them problem. That’s not, that’s not you. Right. That’s them putting unrealistic expectations on their holidays. And it’s okay, maybe they haven’t learned your tricks yet. Right. You know, and, and just try as hard as you can.
Sue Day:
When you hear criticism, he is so heart rated. She’s. We hear so much of it. Yeah, that’s a thumb problem. I need to focus on what’s a me problem. Sometimes we hear criticism that is a me problem. Right. And then we have to take that into account and, and move forward with that in whatever way we need to.
Sue Day:
But if it’s because you don’t have the right bobble on the tree or your prime rib is, you know, cooked 5 degrees too warm or whatever, it’s, that’s a them problem. It’s not, it’s not a, not a you problem. And trying to really take that to heart, I think that’s probably the most significant thing for adhd. We hear so much negative stuff about ourselves. Yeah, I love that. I love that.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah. You said pause. And I think even if you don’t have adhd, it’s very important. Because I’m an emotional person, I, I have to work very hard on regulating my emotion because I tend to, something happens and I react. And as I get older, it’s gotten much, much better, but I still have to practice and be conscious. So for somebody with adhd, I’ve not been tested, but sometimes I feel like I have the symptoms. But you know, for somebody with adhd, I imagine that’s even, you know, harder for them to really work on regulating that emotion. So you don’t, you know, allow that emotion to derail your relationships.
Dr. Sev:
And then you said something else. That’s a them problem. And that’s something we all need to work on because, because somebody will say something on social media or somebody will judge your choices. That’s a them problem because they don’t know the reason for your, your choices and you know why you chose those, you made those choices. And even if in the end the choice derails something, that’s your choice and you know what you need to do to fix it. So really for someone who’s listening right now to us, pause and remember that somebody’s saying something to you. Sometimes it’s coming from a place of their hurt, it’s coming from a place of their experiences and it’s not necessarily a reflection of you and what, what it is that you’re doing. Because I think studies show that we think more negative thoughts than we do positive thoughts on a daily basis.
Dr. Sev:
I don’t remember what the numbers are.
Sue Day:
Big difference.
Dr. Sev:
Yeah, a real big difference in how many negative thoughts. And then we have other people piling on. So you know, on top of that. So just give yourself some, give yourself a break and as sue said, you know, use some self compassion practices to help you manage as you go through the holidays.
Sue Day:
Absolutely. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
Dr. Sev:
Okay, so I’m going to share, sue has a book that I’d like for her to talk about. So I am going to share the, the COVID in a little bit. Let me do that. It’s called ADHD brilliance, A journey into your extraordinary brain. And you know what, I love that word, extraordinary because it’s, it’s saying there’s nothing wrong with your brain, it just functions differently. And I want you to hear me, if you have adhd, there is nothing wrong with your brain. It’s functions differently. And by differently I don’t mean compared to the norm.
Dr. Sev:
It just means that for somebody without adhd, your brain functions differently from theirs or their brain functions differently from yours. So sue, tell us about this book and the germination of the idea how we can help someone.
Sue Day:
Yeah. So this book is a journey. It takes you on a journey of love, self acceptance, finding your strengths and acknowledging your needs and building a toolbox that allows you to thrive moving forward in your life. This is not a book that is going to determine, although you may find as you go through it that you find your next, you know, perfect career or you know, it, it may end up, if you go through it, that you find your perfect specific thing. But mainly it’s built to find your, the way that you can thrive in whatever situation you want to take yourself into. And I started it as, because I have a coaching journey that I can, that I bring people on. It’s a 10 session journey and it has homework in between and one of My clients was like, I cannot keep track of your worksheets. There are two.
Sue Day:
It is too. I just can’t keep track of them because they have ADHD and they were having a hard time keeping all their worksheets organized. And so I started making worksheets a workbook. And then I was making this workbook and all of a sudden I was like, people don’t know anything about ADHD. People think they know a lot about ADHD because they’re watching these TikToks and these little short form contents, but they are. But mostly ADHD is either treated like a catastrophe or this amazing thing that can do no wrong and this amazing strength that has no challenges or just something that’s sort of silly. Right. And so I decided to put a whole nother section in the book.
Sue Day:
I doubled the size of the book because I wanted to tell people about ADHD in a way that I think is really accessible and understandable and relatable. So basically it says the first part of the book is what do you need to know about ADHD and about everybody’s adhd? Right. And then the second part is what do you need to know about you, about your brain, about how you work in order to thrive?
Dr. Sev:
Okay, so where can they find the book right now?
Sue Day:
Nowhere. It is on my desktop. It has been edited as being typeset as we speak and it will be coming out sometime in January. But if you go to my website, pathways forward coaching.com you can sign up for to get notices about the book and how the schedule is coming in. And everybody who signs up for it gets a free electronic annual planner that is very ADHD friendly that, that they can, that they can use throughout the year. So a little bonus material there. Yeah.
Dr. Sev:
And that was pathwaysforwardcoaching.com that’s it. All right, so any final words that you want to share with our listeners?
Sue Day:
I just want to, for one, thank you so much for having me on. I love the work that you do and how empowering the work that you do. Really helping women with their understand their finances. And I’ve seen a couple of your, of your shows and just how amazingly simple you make it in these really meaningful steps that, that can really be done so simply. So I really appreciate what you’re doing. Managing money is, is not easy and for 80ish years it’s even, even harder. So I really appreciate that and yeah, I just hope that anybody who has ADHD to try and learn as much as you can about it and try to love yourself.
Dr. Sev:
Thank You. Thank you so much, sue, and thanks for those kind, affirming words. I really, really appreciate it. Now, I like to wrap up the podcast with a fun question. So I want to ask you, if you were to have lunch with one of your favorite persons, living, living dead or dead, who would it be and why?
Sue Day:
Well, my world, since I’ve been writing this book, is all ADHD all the time. And so actually, no, I’m going to change my mind. I was going to say Jessica McCabe of how to ADHD because she’s absolutely awesome and anybody with ADHD should totally check her out. But I’m going to get this new book that I just found out instead and I’m going to say this author here, Jeff Vandermeer. This is has nothing. Sorry about the light. I know my computer is slow to adapt. This is the most extraordinary book.
Sue Day:
I got it because I’m typesetting my book and I wanted some, some, some ideas around typesetting. And, and then I, and within 10 minutes of picking it up, I’m like, I need to be a fiction author. And because it’s called Wonder Book, the Illustrated Guide to Creating Imaginative Fiction. And it is so inspiring and fun and enjoyable. So that’s my new answer for today is because I have ADHD and I like new shiny things is Jeff Vandermeer to talk about the Wonder Book.
Dr. Sev:
Okay, thanks again, Sue. And I have again Sue’s website. You can follow her there or on LinkedIn. She’s Susan Day on LinkedIn and so you can keep abreast of the the book as it comes out or on our website, which is Pathways. You want to say this wrong, Sue.
Sue Day:
Forward Coaching.
Dr. Sev:
Pathways Forward Coaching on. I’m on her newsletter so I should know it, but pathways forward coaching.com so you can follow her there. Sign up for her newsletter so you can know what’s going on with this book. And even if you don’t have adhd, you know somebody who does and could possibly be a benefit from the book or from her service because she does do coaching. So you can go to her website again, pathwaysforwardcoaching.com so that you can find out more about what she does and how she can benefit you or your family members or your friend who has adhd. So thanks again, Sue. And for those of you who are going to be listening on the podcast platform, which are Apple, Spotify, Audible, Amazon Music, all of those podcast platforms, this will be shown over there shortly or if you listen on YouTube, all you have to do is go to Dr. Sev Talks Money on any podcast platform or on YouTube.
Dr. Sev:
Follow me there so you can hear more about death and interviews that are coming up. And I will be doing some solo sessions also, so you can follow us there. Follow me there at Dr. Sev Talks Money, the podcast platforms, or on YouTube so you can learn more about our guests and about money. Because again, our main mission is to ensure that women have a handle on their finances and that nothing is in your past to derail you. And even if you get derailed, how ways that you can rebuild your finances. That’s what we’re all about. Because when we’re empowered, our families are empowered, our communities are empowered, and our world is empowered.
Dr. Sev:
Thank you so much, and have a wonderful night, and I will see you on the next live stream.
Keywords
ADHD challenges, social media standards, personal goals, self-criticism, societal pressure, emotional regulation, rejection sensitivity, criticism impact, self-awareness, self-compassion, self-regulation, healthy relationships, ADHD Brilliance book, self-acceptance, strategies for ADHD, ADHD-friendly planner, financial empowerment, holiday spending, impulsive buying, repeat purchasing, budget planning, low dopamine levels, craving novelty, holiday expenses, money management, accountability partner, societal expectations, perfectionism, self-love, advertising influence, holiday stress, Severine Bryan, Dr. Sev Talks Money
